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Shredder WIP (Read 248775 times)

Started by Dcat, February 14, 2012, 10:32:11 am
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Saikoro

Re: Shredder WIP
#621  September 04, 2012, 06:38:46 pm
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To keep things simple, I say code each turtle individually. As far as co-op goes, I'm not sure how that would work, so maybe you could just keep it so all four turtles appear for default situations??
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Unstabler said, January 31, 2013, 04:11:33 pm
I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
GarchompMatt said, September 17, 2013, 12:37:33 am
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.

A$AP Buckus

Re: Shredder WIP
#622  September 04, 2012, 08:55:24 pm
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Nice updates. Don't know if you're aware already, but Veanko made A.I. patches for your Leo, Mike and Don. They're 1.0 exclusive. If I remember right, you were gonna give the turtles A.I. at some point, so the patches may serve as a starting ground/suffice. The patches utilizes the turtles moves and combos nicely.

Noside

Re: Shredder WIP
#623  September 04, 2012, 09:22:32 pm
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Man, its nice to see the shredd back in action again, shredder has become one of my fave mugen characters, can't wait to try him out, best of luck with this charcter.

Dcat

Re: Shredder WIP
#624  September 05, 2012, 01:02:46 pm
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Uncle Buckus said, September 04, 2012, 08:55:24 pm
Nice updates. Don't know if you're aware already, but Veanko made A.I. patches for your Leo, Mike and Don. They're 1.0 exclusive. If I remember right, you were gonna give the turtles A.I. at some point, so the patches may serve as a starting ground/suffice. The patches utilizes the turtles moves and combos nicely.

Yes! I've seen Veanko's AI patches they seem to add a fair bit of competition to the turtles that was always missing. I need to get into contact with him again and see if he'd be willing to help out with finishing Krang's AI as well. I need him to take a look at the as-of-yet unreleased updated turtles & I have some notes to give on a few better move chains for the turtles as well, if Veanko's on-board with being the official AI coder for my bunch of characters here there's so much I need to get around to with regards to my end on that front. We'll be in contact.

Speaking of, I still need to do something as far as collaboration goes with those special intros against your Battletoads Buckus!


Saikoro said, September 04, 2012, 06:38:46 pm
To keep things simple, I say code each turtle individually. As far as co-op goes, I'm not sure how that would work, so maybe you could just keep it so all four turtles appear for default situations??

Alright then, sounds like the best method.

@Noside: thanks for the kind words and positivity!


The next week and a half is all about tidying up the loose ends as they stand so far,  this means :

-knocking out/ making more of a dent in those special intros
-spriting two more directional hand blast animations + remapping the fireball motion attacks to EX commands
-furnishing the Retro miutation code + including the playername/variable character detection & anims from Anakaris

Once I finally begin knocking off a few of these longstanding issues I've been procrastinating on I can hopefully begin coding new move content. Maybe if I'm a bit less sporadic with my creation method and stick to the checklist format the character will become that much more resolved sooner.


I'll keep you posted!

     Posted: September 06, 2012, 11:21:29 am
-I've been futzing around with the April's Apartment Intro a bit. Made it work in simul-mode regardless of which Team the turtles or Shredder are on.
In the screenshot, it's Shredd and Leo vs. Raph and Don. Not too sure about this since it leaves some trouble if one of the players isn't a turtle, I'll try my best to do a bit more trigger restriction or just use Saikoro's simple solution of including all 4 turtles in the intro every time, independent of which characters the player chooses.



-Also sprited the new Ground Wave Projectile animation. Next up is the Anti-Air version, then I'll get to coding these variants.

 

Saikoro

Re: Shredder WIP
#625  September 06, 2012, 01:35:57 pm
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Cowabunga Dcat!! It's great to see details come together. I love that intro!! Also, your new animations look pretty sweet. It'l be great to see them integrated into his already awesome repertoire.

One thought on his ground wave: considering how all of your characters are combo friendly, I could already see this move being either a combo extension or finisher. Therefore, each attack strength could consist of a different set of hits. Jab could be 2 hits; Medium could be 3 hits; Fierce could be 4 hits. This replicates Krang's elbow missile system now that I think of it. Imagine the combo potential!!
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Unstabler said, January 31, 2013, 04:11:33 pm
I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
GarchompMatt said, September 17, 2013, 12:37:33 am
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.
Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 05:50:13 pm by Saikoro

YagamiBrando

Re: Shredder WIP
#626  September 06, 2012, 02:08:52 pm
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Yeah, cool ground wave move - will it be similar to Shredder's special wave attack from Tournament fighters(NES)?

XamΣeta

Re: Shredder WIP
#627  September 06, 2012, 02:58:04 pm
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...and here I was going to suggest the exact same thing Saikoro said about the ground wave after seeing that animation. I guess great minds think alike. :P

Excellent work Dcat and its always nice to see you update your chars with your fresh ideas.

Not to sound bothersome or put any pressure on you but can those of us already testing Krang look forward to a test version of Shredder as well?

Keep fighting the good fight bro.  :buttrox:
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DW

Re: Shredder WIP
#628  September 06, 2012, 05:43:53 pm
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Very glad to hear/see some progress on The Shredder. Awesome work, Dcat. I have a question that kinda related, I'm sure someone knows the answer... Is "Uncle Phil"(don't know the actor's real name...) from the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, the voice of Shredder from the classic series? I know he had 2 VAs from time to time, but the most iconic/used VA, I always thought it was that guy from the FPoB.

Saikoro

Re: Shredder WIP
#629  September 06, 2012, 05:52:18 pm
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@DivineWolf: Yup, Uncle Phil it is. James Avery actually. And Beta... What can I say... Birds of the feather flock together.
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Unstabler said, January 31, 2013, 04:11:33 pm
I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
GarchompMatt said, September 17, 2013, 12:37:33 am
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.

DW

Re: Shredder WIP
#630  September 06, 2012, 05:56:46 pm
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Lol, that's awesome. Uncle Phil is Shredder. His VAing of Shredder is always the most iconic and rememberable to me. The only VA I like for Shredder as much as Uncle Phil, is the VA for the more up to date TMNT. I don't know who he is at all, but his voice sounds very befitting of Shredder. He even sounds like he could VA for Akuma as well. I wish he had, because Akuma's English VAs in the current games... I'm sorry, but they're horrible.... Off topic though, sorry... :P Good luck with everything Dcat. :)

Saikoro

Re: Shredder WIP
#631  September 06, 2012, 06:00:26 pm
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Right!? I swear you hear "STARBUCKS SAUSAGES!!" upon his Raging Demon startup in SSFIV when set to English. Try it... Laughter will ensue.

Lastly, Leonardo's voice actor was also behind Liquid Snake in Metal Gear Solid. Yup, that's right. "I'M YOUR SHADOW!!"
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Unstabler said, January 31, 2013, 04:11:33 pm
I'd like to report two robots on the MFG forums: One is EXShadow. The other is Saikoro.
GarchompMatt said, September 17, 2013, 12:37:33 am
There should be a Saikoro plugin for Photoshop.

DW

Re: Shredder WIP
#632  September 06, 2012, 06:06:57 pm
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Lol! Starbucks Sausages. I already know how horrible his English VA is in SF4 and MVC3, believe me. And that's EPIC about Leo/Liquid Snake.

Lichtbringer

Re: Shredder WIP
#633  September 06, 2012, 07:54:14 pm
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@Dcat

I have a small question about the Intro, I'm not sure if that is possible but could you add a different intros for the case you are P1 and you are playing against the turtles?

Because I see no problem in it to have this intro if I would play against shredder with one of the turtles, but to have him Jump over and over again out of the burning building if I fight with him one turtle after another would look a little strange for me. ö.ö

Dcat

Re: Shredder WIP
#634  September 06, 2012, 11:11:32 pm
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CalmAxel said, September 06, 2012, 02:58:04 pm

...and here I was going to suggest the exact same thing Saikoro said about the ground wave after seeing that animation. I guess great minds think alike. :P

Excellent work Dcat and its always nice to see you update your chars with your fresh ideas.

Not to sound bothersome or put any pressure on you but can those of us already testing Krang look forward to a test version of Shredder as well?

Keep fighting the good fight bro.  :buttrox:

Private betas are en route now.

moep said, September 06, 2012, 07:54:14 pm
@Dcat

I have a small question about the Intro, I'm not sure if that is possible but could you add a different intros for the case you are P1 and you are playing against the turtles?

Because I see no problem in it to have this intro if I would play against shredder with one of the turtles, but to have him Jump over and over again out of the burning building if I fight with him one turtle after another would look a little strange for me. ö.ö
If you're asking whether I can prevent the intro from happening during turns mode, the answer is yes. It will be randomized anyway, much in the way I have the custom intros set up for the turtles and Krang, so you won't get that particular intro every time.

In my post above I posted a screenshot of the intro in action during a 4 player simultaneous match, it'd also work for a 3 person simul match as well though, and its not multiple instances of the intro being performed continuously its one intro being performed by Shredder and the turtle characters all acknowledging this and synching up their corresponding animations as a result. Not sure if that explains things clearer or not or if you wanted an explanation in the first place... sorry if that was unclear.

Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 11:18:01 pm by Dcat

Cybaster

Re: Shredder WIP
#635  September 07, 2012, 12:44:13 am
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Some very preliminary feedback before going to bed.

Shredder :
- Typo in readme for DESPERATION STEEL.
- I usually don't like using BGPalFX and effects like that during supers, as they mess up many stages, especially those using the RGB method to avoid colorloss.
- DESPERATION STEEL doesn't give an additional hit if performed in a combo.
- I find it strange that s.SP > DESPERATION STEEL deals less damage than s.SP > strong SILENT STEEL. You may want to fix something in the dampener here. Also tested with s.LP > s.MP > s.SP > Desperation/Silent Steel.
- You may want to add more frames or realign taunt. I really think Shredder is moving all around the place during this move.
- I guess Mutagen isn't finished yet ? Gives back wrong anim umbers against non compatible characters.
- You may want to add a tutorial or link to the MFG topic to tell people which anims and states to use if they want to make their char compatible with Mutagen.
- After Silen Steel, there's an enemybind helper staying on the opponent (see CLSN at his feet).
- Only 5 ticks of recovery (talking about non invincibility) seems kinda short for teleport. May be just me.
- Dunno if this was asked before : any plans to add more control to super jump, by making Shredder move more forward/backward depending on the direction pressed during super jump ? More like standard MVC behaviour. Same applies to your other characters.
- You should DL Fighter Factory 3 if you're not using it, and use the syntax checker to fix all the mistakes. There's a HUGE quantity of bad syntax in the code. Part of it doesn't break the character, but there's a chance something in the middle doesn't act as you wanted to. Check for the other chars too BTW.

KRANG :
- Winquote 9 : "phillosopher" takes only one "l". :P

      Posted: September 07, 2012, 09:28:50 am
- Donatello and Krang are the two only ones who won't crouch while running. Holding DF during a run on all other chars will make them stop running. You may want to make all other chars not crouch when running.
- Shredder's Shadow Copy Blitz can have some problems against a few chars because of the dizzy state at the beginning. I learned that the hard way when coding Goku Z2. Basically, Shin Gouki by POTS will go out of dizzy state if placed in dizzy anim. Warmachine by One Winged Angel doesn't have any CLSNs on the dizzy state, making you miss him. Create a custom dizzy anim for these two chars, using their dizzy animation as reference, and use changeanim2 :
Spoiler, click to toggle visibilty
Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 09:30:31 am by Doppelganger

Veanko

Re: Shredder WIP
#636  September 07, 2012, 01:27:17 pm
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Shredder:

- The second part of Couching strong punch misses on most couching opponents.





- In the readme. it says that "DESPERATION STEEL" is QCF,QCF+Kick. however. it is actuality QCB,QCB+Punch.

yeah not a whole lot. but everything else was pointed out by cybaster and Rolento. i will get to testing Krang sometime soon. and are you planing on adding EX moves?

      Posted: September 07, 2012, 09:58:16 pm
Doppelganger said, September 07, 2012, 12:44:13 am
- Shredder's Shadow Copy Blitz can have some problems against a few chars because of the dizzy state at the beginning. I learned that the hard way when coding Goku Z2. Basically, Shin Gouki by POTS will go out of dizzy state if placed in dizzy anim. Warmachine by One Winged Angel doesn't have any CLSNs on the dizzy state, making you miss him. Create a custom dizzy anim for these two chars, using their dizzy animation as reference, and use changeanim2

this also happens with Krang's "WRATH OF KRANG" where akuma can freely move around while krang is doing the move. however i found a little weird bug where if akuma jumps into the lighting he will bug out and disappear for the rest of the match. this video explains it better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfFiVqOtPNU&feature=youtu.be

i think this is more of an issue on Akuma's part for pots allowing him to break out of any state which uses the anim 5300, which causes many characters to bug out. though what is odd is that some characters can keep him in a dizzy state without a custom dizzy anim. such as the first part of Piccolo's(by Choujin) "Cho-Bakuretsu-Attack" and my character which doesn't even use a target bind.
something looks a little off...

My youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TVeanko
Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 10:02:18 pm by Veanko

Dcat

Re: Shredder WIP
#637  September 08, 2012, 12:35:39 am
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Doppelganger said, September 07, 2012, 12:44:13 am
- I usually don't like using BGPalFX and effects like that during supers, as they mess up many stages, especially those using the RGB method to avoid colorloss.
I wasn't aware of this, I really liked this effect in Waru's Black Polnareff but I can always sort out something that won't have a negative impact on the stage though, good call, I never would have thought this would be an issue.

Quote
- DESPERATION STEEL doesn't give an additional hit if performed in a combo.
- I find it strange that s.SP > DESPERATION STEEL deals less damage than s.SP > strong SILENT STEEL. You may want to fix something in the dampener here. Also tested with s.LP > s.MP > s.SP > Desperation/Silent Steel.
Yeah Damage is all over the grid, Rolento pointed out that Gauntlet Blur is regularly dealing around 200+ damage even when comboed into. I'm going to shore the damage and dampener issues up now so I don't run into the same situation I've had with relegating damage last-minute like I have with my past characters.

Quote
- You may want to add more frames or realign taunt. I really think Shredder is moving all around the place during this move.
Very right! I've got to make him return to idle stance more fluidly, I have this transitional animation in his .AIR file so it'll be a quick fix.

Quote
- I guess Mutagen isn't finished yet ? Gives back wrong anim numbers against non compatible characters.
- You may want to add a tutorial or link to the MFG topic to tell people which anims and states to use if they want to make their char compatible with Mutagen.
Yeah, I really need to finish that code. &gt;_&gt; I'll put an additional .TXT file in there for the compatibility tutorial as well, good advice, I've just got to get it in gear and follow through.

Quote
- After Silent Steel, there's an enemybind helper staying on the opponent (see CLSN at his feet).
I have those on there for the Ground Bounce helper effects to bind to the opponents. Are the helpers not properly being destroyed? If they remain after the opponent returns to their self state then that's a real issue.

Quote
- Only 5 ticks of recovery (talking about non invincibility) seems kinda short for teleport. May be just me
Taking another look at the teleport, it does seem to go rather fast . I can lengthen the cool-down time.

Quote
- Dunno if this was asked before : any plans to add more control to super jump, by making Shredder move more forward/backward depending on the direction pressed during super jump ? More like standard MVC behaviour. Same applies to your other characters.
I actually specifically restricted this in the other characters since I had the problem of too many dropped combos when pressing the wrong direction following a launcher, I could still include it for normal mobility though. I like how you've got it set up for Goku, with a gradual shift based on player input, nothing too dramatic.  Shredder and Krang would probably be the only ones where I would include it though. I'll have to take a look at your code.

Quote
- You should DL Fighter Factory 3 if you're not using it, and use the syntax checker to fix all the mistakes. There's a HUGE quantity of bad syntax in the code. Part of it doesn't break the character, but there's a chance something in the middle doesn't act as you wanted to. Check for the other chars too BTW.
I can't get FF3 to work, the links by VirtualTek on MFG aren't all available either. It mentions a missing .dll, will it overwrite my Fighter Factory Classic?  If I can get a proper copy of the program I'd really like to check out this new syntax checker you've mentioned, sounds like it could be a major hassle-saver.

Quote
- Donatello and Krang are the two only ones who won't crouch while running. Holding DF during a run on all other chars will make them stop running. You may want to make all other chars not crouch when running.
Another great catch, never noticed that until you pointed it out.

Veanko said, September 07, 2012, 01:27:17 pm
Shredder:
- The second part of Couching strong punch misses on most couching opponents.
I'll definitely have to fix this, that's rather game-breaking. I extended the height of Red CLSN on the Standing Medium Kick as well since it was having a similar result on short/crouching opponents.

Quote
are you planing on adding EX moves?
I may add special attacks that drain power meter and are performed with EX commands but he won't have EX Attacks in the traditional sense like the turtles do, this is also true for Krang.

Doppelganger said, September 07, 2012, 12:44:13 am
- Shredder's Shadow Copy Blitz can have some problems against a few chars because of the dizzy state at the beginning. I learned that the hard way when coding Goku Z2. Basically, Shin Gouki by POTS will go out of dizzy state if placed in dizzy anim. Warmachine by One Winged Angel doesn't have any CLSNs on the dizzy state, making you miss him. Create a custom dizzy anim for these two chars, using their dizzy animation as reference, and use changeanim2

Veanko said:
this also happens with Krang's "WRATH OF KRANG" where akuma can freely move around while krang is doing the move. however i found a little weird bug where if akuma jumps into the lighting he will bug out and disappear for the rest of the match. this video explains it better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfFiVqOtPNU&feature=youtu.be

i think this is more of an issue on Akuma's part for pots allowing him to break out of any state which uses the anim 5300, which causes many characters to bug out. though what is odd is that some characters can keep him in a dizzy state without a custom dizzy anim. such as the first part of Piccolo's(by Choujin) "Cho-Bakuretsu-Attack" and my character which doesn't even use a target bind.

Damn, thanks for catching this, and for the code, vanishing opponent bugs are no bueno. I'll have to try my hand at fixing this right away.

Shredder's READ ME was thrown together pretty last minute. I'll address the myriad of typos eventually, thanks for highlighting them. The more thorough the critique, the better able I am to make the proper adjustments. Its great having extra sets of eyes on these, you guys don't miss a thing! :D
You guys are expert testers for a damn good reason, don't let up!

Rolento

Re: Shredder WIP
#638  September 08, 2012, 07:44:12 pm
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-Been doing some more testing revolving around Shredder's ability to link between air basics. While timing is difficult, Shredder can catch a standing opponent in a a.hp>a.hk loop under the conditions that the last attack before he lands is a.hp as to not trigger the custom landing state associated with a.hk, allowing him to jump right back up to continue the combination.
- Still very powerful when not using the loop; a.hk>a.hp loop till land, s.hp > gauntlet blur for just shy of 350 damage. May be able to get more on larger opponents even, using kfm for these tests.
- Hold fwd and middle or hard attacks for throws seem a tad redundant. Sometimes end up throwing when actually intending to use fwd+mk command move instead.
- Already mentioned to some extent, Desperation Steel's dampening is quite large compared to special moves. Hard to justify use inside of a combo unless the opponent is virtually dead.
- Inflated health value seems unnecessary, especially considering how much Shredder is capable of.
- Stance animation could stand to have some more frames. Also, crouch frame seems a tad cross eyed at the moment.

Cybaster

Re: Shredder WIP
#639  September 10, 2012, 02:50:33 pm
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About FF3, these links should be working :
Quote
Windows x86 (32 bits)
Download - http://www.sendspace.com/file/ovi3n7
Download (mirror) - http://www.multiupload.nl/9E25XI020C
Pre-requisite - http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=8328

Windows x86-64 (64 bits)
Download - http://www.sendspace.com/file/8bcqu4
Download (mirror) - http://www.multiupload.nl/A75AOA61CZ
Pre-requisite - http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=13523
Just use the very first one, since I assume you have a 32bits Windows.
It won't override your FF Classic (FFC). FFC uses a real install system. FF3 is a simple executable which doesn't require any installation. Just extract the archive and double-click on the exe file.
If you're still missing a dll when launching FF3, then go to the Pre-requisite link VirtualTek gave.

Dcat

Re: Shredder WIP
#640  September 10, 2012, 10:38:34 pm
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Okay, thanks for the clarification, I'll see what this syntax deal is all about.

Edit: I've been trying my best to remedy this hell of my own creation with regards to the lines and lines of faulty syntax  due to my neurotic over-inclusion of supermovetime & pausemovetime parameters in just about every sctrl. Also lots of other unnecessary id numbers and additional parameters that my brilliant mind decided were essential to all of my characters' coding at one point in time. Very time consuming to remove but I can't stand knowing there's so much un-usable junk cluttering up my .CNS files; getting these guys gutted is the new number one priority, thanks for the tip,  Cybaster. 
Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 07:59:15 pm by Dcat
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