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Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013 (Read 138275 times)

Started by Cybaster, June 17, 2013, 11:47:21 am
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TRUEMicah

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#61  June 19, 2013, 08:49:47 am
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They do know every command.
They just can't link combos fluently.  :P

Darkflare

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#62  June 19, 2013, 10:48:49 am
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Yea, I'm going to have to go with Homer on this one. If Infinite's AI isn't cheating and making them do stuff they're not supposed to, these guys have some serious safe issues.

Cybaster

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#63  June 19, 2013, 11:23:27 am
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Okay, seeing all these posts, I will nerf all Z2 characters when time comes (yeah, you'll have to wait a few more months, you kinda know how I work now).
That being said, I'd like a few pointers on their moves and what to do to correct that.

For both Goku and Vegeta, which moves do you feel are really too safe ?
For each of them, would reducing the blockstun only fix the move, or is there something else I should be doing (recovery time for some finishers, but I won't touch the comboability) ?
I'll use "training" char and base my frame advantage on POTS chars or something, taking into account similar moves. That should work, I guess.

Zzyzzyxx

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#64  June 19, 2013, 04:21:11 pm
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Minor bug. Use him as a dummy in Training Mode and set his position to Crouch or Jump in the pause menu. The AI activates instantly.

TRUEMicah

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#65  June 19, 2013, 04:28:38 pm
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^Adding to this:  Changing any value on the dummy in training mode activates the AI.

Cybaster

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#66  June 19, 2013, 04:33:39 pm
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Yeah, this basically happens to all Winmugen chars I have that have AI (OrochiKOF97, The_None, POTS, mine, etc.)
So I'll just answer this again : blame Balthazar for not making my life easier and not switching to 1.0.

TTTTTsd

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#67  June 19, 2013, 06:50:02 pm
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Cybaster said, June 19, 2013, 11:23:27 am
Okay, seeing all these posts, I will nerf all Z2 characters when time comes (yeah, you'll have to wait a few more months, you kinda know how I work now).
That being said, I'd like a few pointers on their moves and what to do to correct that.

For both Goku and Vegeta, which moves do you feel are really too safe ?
For each of them, would reducing the blockstun only fix the move, or is there something else I should be doing (recovery time for some finishers, but I won't touch the comboability) ?
I'll use "training" char and base my frame advantage on POTS chars or something, taking into account similar moves. That should work, I guess.
I'd say Goku's Dragon Fist stuff barring the second part is mostly safe, a lot of his normals are as well, although it's fine if they're safe on a jump in, but grounded normals and etc. Really, I'd just go through and base it off of a mix of games that have a lot of chains(Darkstalkers, MVC) and see where that gets you. You don't want normals that are fast to be ridiculously unsafe and etc. The flow should still be there, and I'm sure you can preserve it quite nicely. As far as idea pooling for EX Snap Kick, maybe have the startup time be long enough for the enemy to potentially react and jab goku(not a long jab, a quick poke or something).

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Balthazar

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#68  June 19, 2013, 07:56:18 pm
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My main gripes are with Vegeta, most dominantly his Machine Gun Temper.
Seriously he can just stand in front of you and do it over and over, you're not given a single frame to react,
just block block block :(

Darkflare

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#69  June 19, 2013, 08:29:19 pm
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jweezy34

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#70  June 20, 2013, 01:17:41 am
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Whoa nice update I like the Chris sabat voice for vegeta to, less scratchy and less dull than the previous one(My fault for that)
vegeta is such an asshole to fight against though sometimes lol but I like the challenge none the less
But like some have said I noticed vegeta more specifically drops/fails to finish a combo in a sense :/ he only does like a 5 hit combo against me but I just hope he doesn't get bumped up to a combo fiend in the next "Update" lol
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SoldierSunday

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#71  June 20, 2013, 04:36:36 am
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Zer0degreez

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#72  June 20, 2013, 03:51:43 pm
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Another problem i feel with Vegeta is his damage dampner is way stricter then Goku. with Goku if you connect a level 3 you actually get alot of damage out of it,but when you do it for Vegeta you really dont get much and personally i rather have Vegeta do more or at least as much damage as Goku since his defense is significantly weaker but thats just my opinion. this goes for other combos as well, if you do a basic air combo ending with the Knee attack(sorry i dont know the name of the attack) to Bakuhsta you get almost the same damage as doing light>medium>heavy>rapidfire>cancel into dash sweep air rush Knee attack to Bakhusta.
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Infinite Daze

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#73  June 20, 2013, 05:33:26 pm
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Cybaster said, June 19, 2013, 04:33:39 pm
Yeah, this basically happens to all Winmugen chars I have that have AI (OrochiKOF97, The_None, POTS, mine, etc.)
So I'll just answer this again : blame Balthazar for not making my life easier and not switching to 1.0.
Yeah Cybaster, I personally love 1.0 AI, it has scaling, it's cleaner, and more responsive. I also think a palette selector would be perfect for Z2 fighters because of all the cool pals that they do have.

DW

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#74  June 20, 2013, 06:04:38 pm
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Cybaster said, June 19, 2013, 04:33:39 pm
Yeah, this basically happens to all Winmugen chars I have that have AI (OrochiKOF97, The_None, POTS, mine, etc.)
So I'll just answer this again : blame Balthazar for not making my life easier and not switching to 1.0.

This can be fixed in Winmugen. Though, I'd agree that it is easier to make the AI in 1.0. A perfect example of the AI not activating for a char in training mode is the AI implemented in Choujin's DBZ chars. IDK who did that for Choujin, but they are boss with it. It's can be scaled via a variable through a number trigger and doesn't activate when you train against them.

Infinite Daze

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#75  June 20, 2013, 08:29:55 pm
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DivineWolf said, June 20, 2013, 06:04:38 pm
Cybaster said, June 19, 2013, 04:33:39 pm
Yeah, this basically happens to all Winmugen chars I have that have AI (OrochiKOF97, The_None, POTS, mine, etc.)
So I'll just answer this again : blame Balthazar for not making my life easier and not switching to 1.0.

This can be fixed in Winmugen. Though, I'd agree that it is easier to make the AI in 1.0. A perfect example of the AI not activating for a char in training mode is the AI implemented in Choujin's DBZ chars. IDK who did that for Choujin, but they are boss with it. It's can be scaled via a variable through a number trigger and doesn't activate when you train against them.
The AI problem is because it is coded using an AI hack. I could code it the old way with a var set in the CMD and using commands, but the AI hack seems to be more responsive in fights than the old winmugen way of coding it. If Cybaster and Balthazar want me to change it to the var set AI instead of the  Winane AI, I will change it.

Daeron

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#76  June 20, 2013, 08:41:03 pm
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Dont know if this problem as been commented yet but my Goku z2 (not ssj) suffers from espontaneous teleport attack, when im playing with him he does the teleport attack whatever he wants to XD

SoldierSunday

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#77  June 20, 2013, 09:25:53 pm
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Yeah, the teleport attack happens whenever i get up from a knockdown.

Zer0degreez

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#78  June 20, 2013, 10:34:42 pm
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Yea it also seems too happen out of block stun too.
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Shadow0X3

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#79  June 22, 2013, 04:01:40 am
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In GokuZ2 you still can't activate training mode against SSJ GokuZ2
In VegetaZ2, Sliding Kick > Machine Gun Temper > Galick Ho > Chou Galick Ho. 30 hits that do almost no damage. 322 damage at the end, and you're using 3 meters and very beginner-esque combo skill level. By comparison, Final Flash does 391 damage, with no skill needed, as you just input the command and blast away

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Iced

Re: Goku Z2 and Vegeta Z2 - HUGE update - 17/06/2013
#80  June 22, 2013, 04:12:08 am
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machine gun temper is a non functional move, its not meant to make damage as much as to annoy the opponent and keep them away, since he throws out so many things at once they are all extremely weak.
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